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	<title>Comments on: Australian Drought Predictions</title>
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	<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/</link>
	<description>The power of numeracy</description>
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		<title>By: Niche Modeling &#187; Vindication</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-180026</link>
		<dc:creator>Niche Modeling &#187; Vindication</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Feb 2010 07:05:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] another successful prediction, the end of drought in Australia came from a massive upswing in rainfall in 2010. This was done using the EMD algorithm [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] another successful prediction, the end of drought in Australia came from a massive upswing in rainfall in 2010. This was done using the EMD algorithm [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-179742</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Dec 2009 18:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Do any of the rainfall modes correlate to the ENSO cycle?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do any of the rainfall modes correlate to the ENSO cycle?</p>
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		<title>By: sherro</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-179667</link>
		<dc:creator>sherro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 22:11:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Yes, the science that comes through the hacked emails is not sophicticated. While there are some bright authors, the mangle mill of usual suspects reduces it to quite a mess. Recent science advances desperately need to be brought to the attention of emerging researchers. To the extent that blogging will help, that is excellent. The rambling email I quoted is far from the leading edge. I keep coming back to the concept of a series of neutral-ground conferences whose objectives are to mutually reveal where the cutting edge is and where the funds need to be directed. The tone of the hacks leaves little hope for that with the current generation of IPCC organisers.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Your example above using rainfall has some advantages over temperature, which is a more prevalent test bed. Rainfall is bounded at the lower end and observationally, if a rain gauge is not read for a few days the signal has accumulated, not disappeared, and can be spread with little error. Is there a way in which these 2 properties can be used to further refine the graphs (which you might label a bit more explicitly for us) or has that implicitly been done already? Measurement uncertainty at a site should be less for rainfall than for temperature and the signal should show better through the noise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, the science that comes through the hacked emails is not sophicticated. While there are some bright authors, the mangle mill of usual suspects reduces it to quite a mess. Recent science advances desperately need to be brought to the attention of emerging researchers. To the extent that blogging will help, that is excellent. The rambling email I quoted is far from the leading edge. I keep coming back to the concept of a series of neutral-ground conferences whose objectives are to mutually reveal where the cutting edge is and where the funds need to be directed. The tone of the hacks leaves little hope for that with the current generation of IPCC organisers.</p>
<p>Your example above using rainfall has some advantages over temperature, which is a more prevalent test bed. Rainfall is bounded at the lower end and observationally, if a rain gauge is not read for a few days the signal has accumulated, not disappeared, and can be spread with little error. Is there a way in which these 2 properties can be used to further refine the graphs (which you might label a bit more explicitly for us) or has that implicitly been done already? Measurement uncertainty at a site should be less for rainfall than for temperature and the signal should show better through the noise.</p>
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		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-179664</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 10:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3280#comment-179664</guid>
		<description>Yes sure, lets talk about the science.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Straight answers to three questions: &lt;br&gt;1. How confident are we about the projected regional climate changes? [Not at all].&lt;br&gt;2. Is &quot;model democracy&quot; a valid scientific method? [No]&lt;br&gt;3. Does dynamical downscaling for regional climate change provide a robust scientific basis for action? [No]&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Climate modellers have failed those who need climate forecasts most by chasing after a small human signal, that from the emails, they are not sure rises above natural variation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes sure, lets talk about the science.</p>
<p>Straight answers to three questions: <br />1. How confident are we about the projected regional climate changes? [Not at all].<br />2. Is &#8220;model democracy&#8221; a valid scientific method? [No]<br />3. Does dynamical downscaling for regional climate change provide a robust scientific basis for action? [No]</p>
<p>Climate modellers have failed those who need climate forecasts most by chasing after a small human signal, that from the emails, they are not sure rises above natural variation.</p>
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		<title>By: sherro</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/australian-drought-predictions/comment-page-1/#comment-179663</link>
		<dc:creator>sherro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Nov 2009 09:43:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3280#comment-179663</guid>
		<description>David, the work you are doing here and the paper by Demetris Koutsoyiannis are streets ahead of the IPCC effort. If you are allowing quotes from the CRU hack (which Prof Jones has confirmed as accurate), then you can see in the following (long) post by a very experienced climatologist of the old school, the need for the type of analysis that you guys are doing. (I have removed an email mailing list of about 100 IPCC authors for brevity. There are about 10 Australians among them. One wonders why they should not have done better).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1202939193.txt&lt;br&gt;From: J Shukla &lt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:shukla@cola.iges.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;shukla@cola.iges.org&lt;/a&gt;&gt;&lt;br&gt;To: IPCC-Sec &lt;&lt;a href=&quot;mailto:IPCC-Sec@wmo.int&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;IPCC-Sec@wmo.int&lt;/a&gt;&gt;&lt;br&gt;Subject: Future of the IPCC:&lt;br&gt;Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:46:33 -0500&lt;br&gt;Dear All,&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would like to respond to some of the items in the attached text on &lt;br&gt;issues etc. in particular to the statement in the section 3.1.1 &lt;br&gt;(sections 3: Drivers of required change in the future).&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&quot;There is now greater demand for a higher level of policy relevance in &lt;br&gt;the work of IPCC, which could provide policymakers a robust scientific &lt;br&gt;basis for action&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1. While it is true that a vast majority of the public and the &lt;br&gt;policymakers have accepted the reality of human influence on climate &lt;br&gt;change (in fact many of us were arguing for stronger language with a &lt;br&gt;higher level of confidence at the last meetings of the LAs), how &lt;br&gt;confident are we about the projected regional climate changes?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I would like to submit that the current climate models have such large &lt;br&gt;errors in simulating the statistics of regional (climate) that we are &lt;br&gt;not ready to provide policymakers a robust scientific basis for &quot;action&quot; &lt;br&gt;at regional scale. I am not referring to mitigation, I am strictly &lt;br&gt;referring to science based adaptation.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;For example, we can not advise the policymakers about re-building the &lt;br&gt;city of New Orleans - or more generally about the habitability of the &lt;br&gt;Gulf-Coast - using climate models which have serious deficiencies in &lt;br&gt;simulating the strength, frequency and tracks of hurricanes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;We will serve society better by enhancing our efforts on improving our &lt;br&gt;models so that they can simulate the statistics of regional climate &lt;br&gt;fluctuations; for example: tropical (monsoon depressions, easterly &lt;br&gt;waves, hurricanes, typhoons, Madden-Julian oscillations) and &lt;br&gt;extratropical (storms, blocking) systems in the atmosphere; tropical &lt;br&gt;instability waves, energetic eddies, upwelling zones in the oceans; &lt;br&gt;floods and droughts on the land; and various manifestations (ENSO, &lt;br&gt;monsoons, decadal variations, etc.) of the coupled ocean-land-atmosphere &lt;br&gt;processes.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is inconceivable that policymakers will be willing to make &lt;br&gt;billion-and trillion-dollar decisions for adaptation to the projected &lt;br&gt;regional climate change based on models that do not even describe and &lt;br&gt;simulate the processes that are the building blocks of climate &lt;br&gt;variability. Of course, even a hypothetical, perfect model does not &lt;br&gt;guarantee accurate prediction of the future regional climate, but at the &lt;br&gt;very least, our suggestion for action will be based on the best possible &lt;br&gt;science.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;It is urgently required that the climate modeling community arrive at a &lt;br&gt;consensus on the required accuracy of the climate models to meet the &lt;br&gt;&quot;greater demand for a higher level of policy relevance&quot;.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;2. Is &quot;model democracy&quot; a valid scientific method? The &quot;I&quot; in the IPCC &lt;br&gt;desires that all models submitted by all governments be considered &lt;br&gt;equally probable. This should be thoroughly discussed, because it may &lt;br&gt;have serious implications for regional adaptation strategies. AR4 has &lt;br&gt;shown that model fidelity and model sensitivity are related. The models &lt;br&gt;used for IPCC assessments should be evaluated using a consensus metric.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;3. Does dynamical downscaling for regional climate change provide a &lt;br&gt;robust scientific basis for action?&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Is there a consensus in the climate modeling community on the validity &lt;br&gt;of regional climate prediction by dynamical downscaling? A large number &lt;br&gt;of dynamical downscaling efforts are underway worldwide. This is not &lt;br&gt;necessarily because it is meaningful to do it, but simply because it is &lt;br&gt;possible to do it. It is not without precedent that quite deficient &lt;br&gt;climate models are used by large communities simply because it is &lt;br&gt;convenient to use them. It is self-evident that if a coarse resolution &lt;br&gt;IPCC model does not correctly capture the large-scale mean and transient &lt;br&gt;response, a high-resolution regional model, forced by the lateral &lt;br&gt;boundary conditions from the coarse model, can not improve the response. &lt;br&gt;Considering the important role of multi-scale interactions and feedbacks &lt;br&gt;in the climate system, it is essential that the IPCC-class global models &lt;br&gt;themselves be run at sufficiently high resolution.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Regards,&lt;br&gt;Shukla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, the work you are doing here and the paper by Demetris Koutsoyiannis are streets ahead of the IPCC effort. If you are allowing quotes from the CRU hack (which Prof Jones has confirmed as accurate), then you can see in the following (long) post by a very experienced climatologist of the old school, the need for the type of analysis that you guys are doing. (I have removed an email mailing list of about 100 IPCC authors for brevity. There are about 10 Australians among them. One wonders why they should not have done better).</p>
<p>1202939193.txt<br />From: J Shukla &lt;<a href="mailto:shukla@cola.iges.org" rel="nofollow">shukla@cola.iges.org</a>&gt;<br />To: IPCC-Sec &lt;<a href="mailto:IPCC-Sec@wmo.int" rel="nofollow">IPCC-Sec@wmo.int</a>&gt;<br />Subject: Future of the IPCC:<br />Date: Wed, 13 Feb 2008 16:46:33 -0500<br />Dear All,</p>
<p>I would like to respond to some of the items in the attached text on <br />issues etc. in particular to the statement in the section 3.1.1 <br />(sections 3: Drivers of required change in the future).</p>
<p>&#8220;There is now greater demand for a higher level of policy relevance in <br />the work of IPCC, which could provide policymakers a robust scientific <br />basis for action&#8221;.</p>
<p>1. While it is true that a vast majority of the public and the <br />policymakers have accepted the reality of human influence on climate <br />change (in fact many of us were arguing for stronger language with a <br />higher level of confidence at the last meetings of the LAs), how <br />confident are we about the projected regional climate changes?</p>
<p>I would like to submit that the current climate models have such large <br />errors in simulating the statistics of regional (climate) that we are <br />not ready to provide policymakers a robust scientific basis for &#8220;action&#8221; <br />at regional scale. I am not referring to mitigation, I am strictly <br />referring to science based adaptation.</p>
<p>For example, we can not advise the policymakers about re-building the <br />city of New Orleans &#8211; or more generally about the habitability of the <br />Gulf-Coast &#8211; using climate models which have serious deficiencies in <br />simulating the strength, frequency and tracks of hurricanes.</p>
<p>We will serve society better by enhancing our efforts on improving our <br />models so that they can simulate the statistics of regional climate <br />fluctuations; for example: tropical (monsoon depressions, easterly <br />waves, hurricanes, typhoons, Madden-Julian oscillations) and <br />extratropical (storms, blocking) systems in the atmosphere; tropical <br />instability waves, energetic eddies, upwelling zones in the oceans; <br />floods and droughts on the land; and various manifestations (ENSO, <br />monsoons, decadal variations, etc.) of the coupled ocean-land-atmosphere <br />processes.</p>
<p>It is inconceivable that policymakers will be willing to make <br />billion-and trillion-dollar decisions for adaptation to the projected <br />regional climate change based on models that do not even describe and <br />simulate the processes that are the building blocks of climate <br />variability. Of course, even a hypothetical, perfect model does not <br />guarantee accurate prediction of the future regional climate, but at the <br />very least, our suggestion for action will be based on the best possible <br />science.</p>
<p>It is urgently required that the climate modeling community arrive at a <br />consensus on the required accuracy of the climate models to meet the <br />&#8220;greater demand for a higher level of policy relevance&#8221;.</p>
<p>2. Is &#8220;model democracy&#8221; a valid scientific method? The &#8220;I&#8221; in the IPCC <br />desires that all models submitted by all governments be considered <br />equally probable. This should be thoroughly discussed, because it may <br />have serious implications for regional adaptation strategies. AR4 has <br />shown that model fidelity and model sensitivity are related. The models <br />used for IPCC assessments should be evaluated using a consensus metric.</p>
<p>3. Does dynamical downscaling for regional climate change provide a <br />robust scientific basis for action?</p>
<p>Is there a consensus in the climate modeling community on the validity <br />of regional climate prediction by dynamical downscaling? A large number <br />of dynamical downscaling efforts are underway worldwide. This is not <br />necessarily because it is meaningful to do it, but simply because it is <br />possible to do it. It is not without precedent that quite deficient <br />climate models are used by large communities simply because it is <br />convenient to use them. It is self-evident that if a coarse resolution <br />IPCC model does not correctly capture the large-scale mean and transient <br />response, a high-resolution regional model, forced by the lateral <br />boundary conditions from the coarse model, can not improve the response. <br />Considering the important role of multi-scale interactions and feedbacks <br />in the climate system, it is essential that the IPCC-class global models <br />themselves be run at sufficiently high resolution.</p>
<p>Regards,<br />Shukla</p>
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