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	<title>Comments on: Cherry-picking in Australia</title>
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	<description>The Power of Numeracy</description>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-4560</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Sherrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-4560</guid>
		<description>There are several typos in my post 4. I do not drink, so no blame there. The keyboard strokes were hanging up for half a minute at a time for some odd reason and I got sick of correcting.  The longer the typing took, the less calm I became and I probably went a bridge too far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are several typos in my post 4. I do not drink, so no blame there. The keyboard strokes were hanging up for half a minute at a time for some odd reason and I got sick of correcting.  The longer the typing took, the less calm I became and I probably went a bridge too far.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-7523</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Sherrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 09:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-7523</guid>
		<description>There are several typos in my post 4. I do not drink, so no blame there. The keyboard strokes were hanging up for half a minute at a time for some odd reason and I got sick of correcting.  The longer the typing took, the less calm I became and I probably went a bridge too far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are several typos in my post 4. I do not drink, so no blame there. The keyboard strokes were hanging up for half a minute at a time for some odd reason and I got sick of correcting.  The longer the typing took, the less calm I became and I probably went a bridge too far.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-4559</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:57:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-4559</guid>
		<description>Well spotted Ian! I was meaning to check that, and not assume the models in Suppiah matched the ones in the DECR.  I did look for the model information claimed to be in the SI, but found nothing. From the DECR:

&lt;blockquote&gt;4.1 Methods and data
Our projections of drought are based on
simulations from 13 climate models that perform
acceptably well in the Australian region and for
which potential evaporation data exist. The models are described in the Supplementary Information.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is all the more puzzling given the purpose of the (dubious) selection process in Suppiah was to identify the best performing models in the Australian region.  So no, I haven&#039;t raised that issue.  I am waiting on an answer regarding the validation failures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spotted Ian! I was meaning to check that, and not assume the models in Suppiah matched the ones in the DECR.  I did look for the model information claimed to be in the SI, but found nothing. From the DECR:</p>
<blockquote><p>4.1 Methods and data<br />
Our projections of drought are based on<br />
simulations from 13 climate models that perform<br />
acceptably well in the Australian region and for<br />
which potential evaporation data exist. The models are described in the Supplementary Information.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is all the more puzzling given the purpose of the (dubious) selection process in Suppiah was to identify the best performing models in the Australian region.  So no, I haven&#8217;t raised that issue.  I am waiting on an answer regarding the validation failures.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-7522</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:57:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-7522</guid>
		<description>Well spotted Ian! I was meaning to check that, and not assume the models in Suppiah matched the ones in the DECR.  I did look for the model information claimed to be in the SI, but found nothing. From the DECR:

&lt;blockquote&gt;4.1 Methods and data
Our projections of drought are based on
simulations from 13 climate models that perform
acceptably well in the Australian region and for
which potential evaporation data exist. The models are described in the Supplementary Information.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is all the more puzzling given the purpose of the (dubious) selection process in Suppiah was to identify the best performing models in the Australian region.  So no, I haven&#039;t raised that issue.  I am waiting on an answer regarding the validation failures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well spotted Ian! I was meaning to check that, and not assume the models in Suppiah matched the ones in the DECR.  I did look for the model information claimed to be in the SI, but found nothing. From the DECR:</p>
<blockquote><p>4.1 Methods and data<br />
Our projections of drought are based on<br />
simulations from 13 climate models that perform<br />
acceptably well in the Australian region and for<br />
which potential evaporation data exist. The models are described in the Supplementary Information.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is all the more puzzling given the purpose of the (dubious) selection process in Suppiah was to identify the best performing models in the Australian region.  So no, I haven&#8217;t raised that issue.  I am waiting on an answer regarding the validation failures.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Castles</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-4558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Castles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-4558</guid>
		<description>The models that were used in the DECR include two developed at the Canadian Climate Centre (CCC) and the CSIRO 3.5, NASA GISS-AOM, NASA GISS-E-R and Institute Simon Laplace (IPSL) models, but none of these are among the 15 models used in the Suppiah et al 2007, &#039;the methods paper cited in the Drought Exceptional Circumstances Report.&#039;

And the Norwegian (BCC), Meteo-France (CNRM), Geophysical Fluid Dynamics (GDFL 2.0 and 2.1), German/Korean MPI-ECHAM 5 and Hadley Centre HADGEM1 models were all used in Suppiah et al 2007 but were not among the 13 used in the DECR.

Has there been any explanation for this large difference between the suite of models used in the two studies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The models that were used in the DECR include two developed at the Canadian Climate Centre (CCC) and the CSIRO 3.5, NASA GISS-AOM, NASA GISS-E-R and Institute Simon Laplace (IPSL) models, but none of these are among the 15 models used in the Suppiah et al 2007, &#8216;the methods paper cited in the Drought Exceptional Circumstances Report.&#8217;</p>
<p>And the Norwegian (BCC), Meteo-France (CNRM), Geophysical Fluid Dynamics (GDFL 2.0 and 2.1), German/Korean MPI-ECHAM 5 and Hadley Centre HADGEM1 models were all used in Suppiah et al 2007 but were not among the 13 used in the DECR.</p>
<p>Has there been any explanation for this large difference between the suite of models used in the two studies?</p>
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		<title>By: Ian Castles</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-7521</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Castles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 04:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-7521</guid>
		<description>The models that were used in the DECR include two developed at the Canadian Climate Centre (CCC) and the CSIRO 3.5, NASA GISS-AOM, NASA GISS-E-R and Institute Simon Laplace (IPSL) models, but none of these are among the 15 models used in the Suppiah et al 2007, &#039;the methods paper cited in the Drought Exceptional Circumstances Report.&#039; 

And the Norwegian (BCC), Meteo-France (CNRM), Geophysical Fluid Dynamics (GDFL 2.0 and 2.1), German/Korean MPI-ECHAM 5 and Hadley Centre HADGEM1 models were all used in Suppiah et al 2007 but were not among the 13 used in the DECR.

Has there been any explanation for this large difference between the suite of models used in the two studies?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The models that were used in the DECR include two developed at the Canadian Climate Centre (CCC) and the CSIRO 3.5, NASA GISS-AOM, NASA GISS-E-R and Institute Simon Laplace (IPSL) models, but none of these are among the 15 models used in the Suppiah et al 2007, &#8216;the methods paper cited in the Drought Exceptional Circumstances Report.&#8217; </p>
<p>And the Norwegian (BCC), Meteo-France (CNRM), Geophysical Fluid Dynamics (GDFL 2.0 and 2.1), German/Korean MPI-ECHAM 5 and Hadley Centre HADGEM1 models were all used in Suppiah et al 2007 but were not among the 13 used in the DECR.</p>
<p>Has there been any explanation for this large difference between the suite of models used in the two studies?</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-4557</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Sherrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-4557</guid>
		<description>&quot;Evidently the more skillful models are more likely to produce a decrease.&quot; Dept of Environment &amp; Water Resources, Australian Greenhouse Office, Bureau of Meteorology, &quot;Climate Change in Australia&quot; 2007, page 65.

This sentence alone is a scientific disgrace.

&quot;Evidently...&quot;. Evident to whom? Show the evidence. The paper uses models whose performance is under test; it finds that the model graphs are offset from reality. It concludes that the models have &quot;skill&quot; because model results can differ from actual.

Aha! But these models have the skill to bias as well. The more skilfull show a (rainfall) decrease in future years.

The models, although they deal with future projections and so can never be shown right in advance, are ranked in table 4.1, with scores on a scale of 0 to 1. Of course, none is negative. The range is lowest .304 to highest at .700.

Would not a student of elementary mathematics be amused by the use of 3 significant figures to &quot;guess&quot; as&quot;skill&quot; that can never be show correct?

But there are more steak knives. The models, according to chic mantra, also forecast global temperature changes. Of course, none of these is negative, that is not chic. The relation between model skill and temperature forecast is not strikingly correlated. The lowest temperature change is predicted at 1.96 degrees by a model with skill of 0.508, the highest change of 4.31 degrees from a model skill of 0.608. So the models with middle skill produce both the highest and lowest forecast of global warming. How odd.

It becomes even stranger. The CSIRO models mark 3.0 and 3.5 have skills of 0.601 and 0.607. What a disappointment to spend all that effort for an improvement of 0.1 percent. BUT, the forecasts of global warming have improved, from 2.11 degrees in mark 3.0 to 3.17 degrees in mark 3.5.

In a move that would surely please the policy makers, we have gained 30% severity in Global warming - with no more skill than cherry picking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Evidently the more skillful models are more likely to produce a decrease.&#8221; Dept of Environment &amp; Water Resources, Australian Greenhouse Office, Bureau of Meteorology, &#8220;Climate Change in Australia&#8221; 2007, page 65.</p>
<p>This sentence alone is a scientific disgrace.</p>
<p>&#8220;Evidently&#8230;&#8221;. Evident to whom? Show the evidence. The paper uses models whose performance is under test; it finds that the model graphs are offset from reality. It concludes that the models have &#8220;skill&#8221; because model results can differ from actual.</p>
<p>Aha! But these models have the skill to bias as well. The more skilfull show a (rainfall) decrease in future years.</p>
<p>The models, although they deal with future projections and so can never be shown right in advance, are ranked in table 4.1, with scores on a scale of 0 to 1. Of course, none is negative. The range is lowest .304 to highest at .700.</p>
<p>Would not a student of elementary mathematics be amused by the use of 3 significant figures to &#8220;guess&#8221; as&#8221;skill&#8221; that can never be show correct?</p>
<p>But there are more steak knives. The models, according to chic mantra, also forecast global temperature changes. Of course, none of these is negative, that is not chic. The relation between model skill and temperature forecast is not strikingly correlated. The lowest temperature change is predicted at 1.96 degrees by a model with skill of 0.508, the highest change of 4.31 degrees from a model skill of 0.608. So the models with middle skill produce both the highest and lowest forecast of global warming. How odd.</p>
<p>It becomes even stranger. The CSIRO models mark 3.0 and 3.5 have skills of 0.601 and 0.607. What a disappointment to spend all that effort for an improvement of 0.1 percent. BUT, the forecasts of global warming have improved, from 2.11 degrees in mark 3.0 to 3.17 degrees in mark 3.5.</p>
<p>In a move that would surely please the policy makers, we have gained 30% severity in Global warming &#8211; with no more skill than cherry picking.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Geoff Sherrington</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-7520</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Sherrington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 10:40:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-7520</guid>
		<description>&quot;Evidently the more skillful models are more likely to produce a decrease.&quot; Dept of Environment &amp; Water Resources, Australian Greenhouse Office, Bureau of Meteorology, &quot;Climate Change in Australia&quot; 2007, page 65.

This sentence alone is a scientific disgrace. 

&quot;Evidently...&quot;. Evident to whom? Show the evidence. The paper uses models whose performance is under test; it finds that the model graphs are offset from reality. It concludes that the models have &quot;skill&quot; because model results can differ from actual.

Aha! But these models have the skill to bias as well. The more skilfull show a (rainfall) decrease in future years. 

The models, although they deal with future projections and so can never be shown right in advance, are ranked in table 4.1, with scores on a scale of 0 to 1. Of course, none is negative. The range is lowest .304 to highest at .700. 

Would not a student of elementary mathematics be amused by the use of 3 significant figures to &quot;guess&quot; as&quot;skill&quot; that can never be show correct?

But there are more steak knives. The models, according to chic mantra, also forecast global temperature changes. Of course, none of these is negative, that is not chic. The relation between model skill and temperature forecast is not strikingly correlated. The lowest temperature change is predicted at 1.96 degrees by a model with skill of 0.508, the highest change of 4.31 degrees from a model skill of 0.608. So the models with middle skill produce both the highest and lowest forecast of global warming. How odd.

It becomes even stranger. The CSIRO models mark 3.0 and 3.5 have skills of 0.601 and 0.607. What a disappointment to spend all that effort for an improvement of 0.1 percent. BUT, the forecasts of global warming have improved, from 2.11 degrees in mark 3.0 to 3.17 degrees in mark 3.5. 

In a move that would surely please the policy makers, we have gained 30% severity in Global warming - with no more skill than cherry picking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Evidently the more skillful models are more likely to produce a decrease.&#8221; Dept of Environment &amp; Water Resources, Australian Greenhouse Office, Bureau of Meteorology, &#8220;Climate Change in Australia&#8221; 2007, page 65.</p>
<p>This sentence alone is a scientific disgrace. </p>
<p>&#8220;Evidently&#8230;&#8221;. Evident to whom? Show the evidence. The paper uses models whose performance is under test; it finds that the model graphs are offset from reality. It concludes that the models have &#8220;skill&#8221; because model results can differ from actual.</p>
<p>Aha! But these models have the skill to bias as well. The more skilfull show a (rainfall) decrease in future years. </p>
<p>The models, although they deal with future projections and so can never be shown right in advance, are ranked in table 4.1, with scores on a scale of 0 to 1. Of course, none is negative. The range is lowest .304 to highest at .700. </p>
<p>Would not a student of elementary mathematics be amused by the use of 3 significant figures to &#8220;guess&#8221; as&#8221;skill&#8221; that can never be show correct?</p>
<p>But there are more steak knives. The models, according to chic mantra, also forecast global temperature changes. Of course, none of these is negative, that is not chic. The relation between model skill and temperature forecast is not strikingly correlated. The lowest temperature change is predicted at 1.96 degrees by a model with skill of 0.508, the highest change of 4.31 degrees from a model skill of 0.608. So the models with middle skill produce both the highest and lowest forecast of global warming. How odd.</p>
<p>It becomes even stranger. The CSIRO models mark 3.0 and 3.5 have skills of 0.601 and 0.607. What a disappointment to spend all that effort for an improvement of 0.1 percent. BUT, the forecasts of global warming have improved, from 2.11 degrees in mark 3.0 to 3.17 degrees in mark 3.5. </p>
<p>In a move that would surely please the policy makers, we have gained 30% severity in Global warming &#8211; with no more skill than cherry picking.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-4556</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:14:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-4556</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t help feeling they are being forced to promote the IPCC models, knowing they are not up to scratch for the task.  Maybe I am giving them too much credit, as I have studied problems in modeling for a long time, and poor validation is rife in environmental sciences.  I will keep working on a resolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help feeling they are being forced to promote the IPCC models, knowing they are not up to scratch for the task.  Maybe I am giving them too much credit, as I have studied problems in modeling for a long time, and poor validation is rife in environmental sciences.  I will keep working on a resolution.</p>
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		<title>By: admin</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/cherry-picking-in-australia/#comment-7519</link>
		<dc:creator>admin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=441#comment-7519</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t help feeling they are being forced to promote the IPCC models, knowing they are not up to scratch for the task.  Maybe I am giving them too much credit, as I have studied problems in modeling for a long time, and poor validation is rife in environmental sciences.  I will keep working on a resolution.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t help feeling they are being forced to promote the IPCC models, knowing they are not up to scratch for the task.  Maybe I am giving them too much credit, as I have studied problems in modeling for a long time, and poor validation is rife in environmental sciences.  I will keep working on a resolution.</p>
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