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	<title>Comments for Niche Modeling</title>
	<atom:link href="http://landshape.org/enm/comments/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://landshape.org/enm</link>
	<description>The Power of Numeracy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:37:00 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on Renewables: Dumbest f***ing idea I have ever heard by Sam</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/renewables-dumbest-fing-idea-i-have-ever-heard/#comment-13676</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 May 2012 18:37:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5599#comment-13676</guid>
		<description> Its true, there are many non-renewable resource opportunities available. However, the price is dependent largely on the cost of mining them which will be rising (very slowly), giving a little more incentive for renewables. Also, in terms of land affected (point 1. in this argument), hydrofracking definitely does some damage 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A

While I don&#039;t necessarily subscribe to all of the political undertones of this film, its definitely still pretty questionable</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p> Its true, there are many non-renewable resource opportunities available. However, the price is dependent largely on the cost of mining them which will be rising (very slowly), giving a little more incentive for renewables. Also, in terms of land affected (point 1. in this argument), hydrofracking definitely does some damage </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U01EK76Sy4A</a></p>
<p>While I don&#8217;t necessarily subscribe to all of the political undertones of this film, its definitely still pretty questionable</p>
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		<title>Comment on Renewables: Dumbest f***ing idea I have ever heard by Guest</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/renewables-dumbest-fing-idea-i-have-ever-heard/#comment-13675</link>
		<dc:creator>Guest</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2012 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5599#comment-13675</guid>
		<description>Yes, and those alternatives are slowly becoming viable...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and those alternatives are slowly becoming viable&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Renewables: Dumbest f***ing idea I have ever heard by Kuhnkat</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/renewables-dumbest-fing-idea-i-have-ever-heard/#comment-13674</link>
		<dc:creator>Kuhnkat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 May 2012 01:27:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5599#comment-13674</guid>
		<description>I would add that we will be mining methane hydrates long before the current glut of natural gas from fracking subsides:

http://junkscience.com/2012/05/03/the-methane-hydrates-revolution-successful-natural-gas-extraction-test-is-a-game-changer/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would add that we will be mining methane hydrates long before the current glut of natural gas from fracking subsides:</p>
<p><a href="http://junkscience.com/2012/05/03/the-methane-hydrates-revolution-successful-natural-gas-extraction-test-is-a-game-changer/" rel="nofollow">http://junkscience.com/2012/05/03/the-methane-hydrates-revolution-successful-natural-gas-extraction-test-is-a-game-changer/</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Probability of the Cosmic Ray Flux Theory of Climate Change by cell phone spyware</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/probability-of-the-cosmic-ray-flux-theory-of-climate-change/#comment-13673</link>
		<dc:creator>cell phone spyware</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 20:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=1861#comment-13673</guid>
		<description>thanks for the nice piece of information</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for the nice piece of information</p>
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		<title>Comment on Renewables: Dumbest f***ing idea I have ever heard by Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/renewables-dumbest-fing-idea-i-have-ever-heard/#comment-13670</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 May 2012 03:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5599#comment-13670</guid>
		<description>Wow if this is meant to be a satire on those begrudgingly against renewables, then it is comical and poignant. However, I&#039;m guessing that it was meant to be an actual argument, which only makes it more funny! What&#039;s the suggested alternative? Use up all the oil, and then go back to being cavemen?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow if this is meant to be a satire on those begrudgingly against renewables, then it is comical and poignant. However, I&#8217;m guessing that it was meant to be an actual argument, which only makes it more funny! What&#8217;s the suggested alternative? Use up all the oil, and then go back to being cavemen?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Levitus data on ocean forcing confirms skeptics, falsifies IPCC by anthony</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/levitus-data-on-ocean-forcing-confirms-skeptics-falsifies-ipcc/#comment-13669</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 13:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5918#comment-13669</guid>
		<description>



 
 
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
 
 

 





And another thing,
Tom has seen fit to lampoon at John Cook’s site my reference to Stefan
Boltzmann as a limit to temperature increase by extra CO2;

Tom Curtis at 13:21 PM on 27 April, 2012 

“anthony @16, predictions of the equilibrium
climate response include the Planck feedback function which you describe (and
which is explained in more detail by Chris Colose here). So your argument amounts to the claim that
a prediction which incorporates the Planck feedback cannot be realized because
of the Planck feedback.

I still remain mystified as to why self describe &quot;skeptics&quot; think
that simply citing a well known physical effect which is incorporated into all
Global Circulation Models (GCMs) (as both the Planck feedback and Beer&#039;s Law)
will show the predictions of those GCMs to be false, without any need of
calculation on their behalf. It is as though they thought yelling &quot;But
E=mc^2&quot; would disprove the special theory of relativity.”

Tom has linked to Colose&#039;s piece on climate
sensitivity; Colose says this:

&quot;Note that the logarithmic relation suggests
that the fractional change in CO2 is what is important, since every doubling
produces the same effect.&quot;

This is not correct; for example by AGW&#039;s own
criteria:

280ppm to 560ppm = 1.2c rise
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .4 C rise)
560ppm to 1120 ppm = 1.2c rise
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .2 C rise)
1120 ppm to 2240 ppm = 1.2c rise.
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .1C rise)Colose uses an amount of 1C but the point is the
same.


The reason why this negative feedback to heating occurs is because of
Stefan Boltzmann; as the temperature increases the radiation emitted increases
in a non-linear fashion as I explained:


From
200K-250K radiated energy increases from 91-222 W/m^2 – an increase of 131
W/m^2. 


From 300-350K
radiated energy increases from 459-851 W/m^2 – an increase of 392 W/m^2.


But Colose states:


&quot;The temperature response can then be linearly
related to a forcing&quot;
How can that be when the radiation emitted does not have a linear
response to temperature? 


 




  
 </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And another thing,<br />
Tom has seen fit to lampoon at John Cook’s site my reference to Stefan<br />
Boltzmann as a limit to temperature increase by extra CO2;</p>
<p>Tom Curtis at 13:21 PM on 27 April, 2012 </p>
<p>“anthony @16, predictions of the equilibrium<br />
climate response include the Planck feedback function which you describe (and<br />
which is explained in more detail by Chris Colose here). So your argument amounts to the claim that<br />
a prediction which incorporates the Planck feedback cannot be realized because<br />
of the Planck feedback.</p>
<p>I still remain mystified as to why self describe &#8220;skeptics&#8221; think<br />
that simply citing a well known physical effect which is incorporated into all<br />
Global Circulation Models (GCMs) (as both the Planck feedback and Beer&#8217;s Law)<br />
will show the predictions of those GCMs to be false, without any need of<br />
calculation on their behalf. It is as though they thought yelling &#8220;But<br />
E=mc^2&#8243; would disprove the special theory of relativity.”</p>
<p>Tom has linked to Colose&#8217;s piece on climate<br />
sensitivity; Colose says this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Note that the logarithmic relation suggests<br />
that the fractional change in CO2 is what is important, since every doubling<br />
produces the same effect.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is not correct; for example by AGW&#8217;s own<br />
criteria:</p>
<p>280ppm to 560ppm = 1.2c rise<br />
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .4 C rise)<br />
560ppm to 1120 ppm = 1.2c rise<br />
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .2 C rise)<br />
1120 ppm to 2240 ppm = 1.2c rise.<br />
(on average each 100 ppm results in a .1C rise)Colose uses an amount of 1C but the point is the<br />
same.</p>
<p>The reason why this negative feedback to heating occurs is because of<br />
Stefan Boltzmann; as the temperature increases the radiation emitted increases<br />
in a non-linear fashion as I explained:</p>
<p>From<br />
200K-250K radiated energy increases from 91-222 W/m^2 – an increase of 131<br />
W/m^2. </p>
<p>From 300-350K<br />
radiated energy increases from 459-851 W/m^2 – an increase of 392 W/m^2.</p>
<p>But Colose states:</p>
<p>&#8220;The temperature response can then be linearly<br />
related to a forcing&#8221;<br />
How can that be when the radiation emitted does not have a linear<br />
response to temperature? </p>
<p> </p>
<p>  <br />
 </p>
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		<title>Comment on Levitus data on ocean forcing confirms skeptics, falsifies IPCC by anthony</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/levitus-data-on-ocean-forcing-confirms-skeptics-falsifies-ipcc/#comment-13668</link>
		<dc:creator>anthony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Apr 2012 12:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5918#comment-13668</guid>
		<description>This needs to be clarified; Tom is saying that Levitus&#039;s forcing figure is less than Hansen&#039;s and indeed AGW theory because it is later into the forcing period after the system has already responded to the earlier forcing by producing a greater temperature and therefore there is less forcing to be had because there is less future temperature change to produce further forcing.

A couple of things about this:

1 The temperature since 1750 is MUCH less than would be expected from the AGW forcing; which is, I suppose, why so much interest is in the &#039;hidden&#039; heat in the ocean.

2 If forcing is to be expected to be less, as explained in the 1st paragraph, as the system gets closer to the higher equilibrium temperature then, as an unavoidable consequence, the future temperature must be less too.

This final point makes a mockery of the notions of future, MUCH higher, equilibrium temperatures; unless the heat can be found to be in the oceans. BUT Levitus shows that heat is not in the oceans; or at least sufficient heat to produce the equilibrium temperatures predicted by AGW theory.

At least that is my understanding; please feel free to critique.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This needs to be clarified; Tom is saying that Levitus&#8217;s forcing figure is less than Hansen&#8217;s and indeed AGW theory because it is later into the forcing period after the system has already responded to the earlier forcing by producing a greater temperature and therefore there is less forcing to be had because there is less future temperature change to produce further forcing.</p>
<p>A couple of things about this:</p>
<p>1 The temperature since 1750 is MUCH less than would be expected from the AGW forcing; which is, I suppose, why so much interest is in the &#8216;hidden&#8217; heat in the ocean.</p>
<p>2 If forcing is to be expected to be less, as explained in the 1st paragraph, as the system gets closer to the higher equilibrium temperature then, as an unavoidable consequence, the future temperature must be less too.</p>
<p>This final point makes a mockery of the notions of future, MUCH higher, equilibrium temperatures; unless the heat can be found to be in the oceans. BUT Levitus shows that heat is not in the oceans; or at least sufficient heat to produce the equilibrium temperatures predicted by AGW theory.</p>
<p>At least that is my understanding; please feel free to critique.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Levitus data on ocean forcing confirms skeptics, falsifies IPCC by Alex Harvey</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/levitus-data-on-ocean-forcing-confirms-skeptics-falsifies-ipcc/#comment-13666</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2012 05:58:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5918#comment-13666</guid>
		<description>Tom,

&quot;But you are still not correcting for the false assumption that the TOA 
imbalance at a time, t, is at least equal to the forcing at t relative 
to some earlier time.&quot;

Okay.  Since humans increase CO2 monotonically, then averaged over some time period that exceeds ENSO variability, the TOA imbalance for such an interval ought to be &gt; the TOA imbalance over an earlier interval - if temperature is somehow held artificially constant.

You mention that temperature has increased, and this should have partially restored the TOA energy balance.  The increase in T since 1750 is about 0.8 K, and since 1960 about 0.3 K (from memory).  0.3 K is certainly small relative to the 3 K per 2xCO2 that is expected.

At the same time, though, the CO2 forcing has increased, and this creates more imbalance.

One would think that as an approximation, the additional forcing might cancel the effect of the temperature increase.  Thus, one would think that David&#039;s comparison is reasonable.

So, I think I understand the point you&#039;re making, but lack the mathematical skills to quantify it.  Is it possible that someone could put numbers to it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom,</p>
<p>&#8220;But you are still not correcting for the false assumption that the TOA<br />
imbalance at a time, t, is at least equal to the forcing at t relative<br />
to some earlier time.&#8221;</p>
<p>Okay.  Since humans increase CO2 monotonically, then averaged over some time period that exceeds ENSO variability, the TOA imbalance for such an interval ought to be &gt; the TOA imbalance over an earlier interval &#8211; if temperature is somehow held artificially constant.</p>
<p>You mention that temperature has increased, and this should have partially restored the TOA energy balance.  The increase in T since 1750 is about 0.8 K, and since 1960 about 0.3 K (from memory).  0.3 K is certainly small relative to the 3 K per 2xCO2 that is expected.</p>
<p>At the same time, though, the CO2 forcing has increased, and this creates more imbalance.</p>
<p>One would think that as an approximation, the additional forcing might cancel the effect of the temperature increase.  Thus, one would think that David&#8217;s comparison is reasonable.</p>
<p>So, I think I understand the point you&#8217;re making, but lack the mathematical skills to quantify it.  Is it possible that someone could put numbers to it?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Levitus data on ocean forcing confirms skeptics, falsifies IPCC by Pielkesr</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/levitus-data-on-ocean-forcing-confirms-skeptics-falsifies-ipcc/#comment-13664</link>
		<dc:creator>Pielkesr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Apr 2012 00:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5918#comment-13664</guid>
		<description>Tom Curtis - To make sure I am clear, the indirect radiative forcings as I wrote above include both non-immediate radiative forcings and other radiative feedbacks.  Other radiative feedbacks are discussed in Understanding 
Climate Change Feedbacks (2003) </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom Curtis &#8211; To make sure I am clear, the indirect radiative forcings as I wrote above include both non-immediate radiative forcings and other radiative feedbacks.  Other radiative feedbacks are discussed in Understanding<br />
Climate Change Feedbacks (2003) </p>
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		<title>Comment on Levitus data on ocean forcing confirms skeptics, falsifies IPCC by Pielkesr</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/levitus-data-on-ocean-forcing-confirms-skeptics-falsifies-ipcc/#comment-13663</link>
		<dc:creator>Pielkesr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Apr 2012 20:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=5918#comment-13663</guid>
		<description>TomCurtis     

Please list succinctly your two claimed egregious errors            
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TomCurtis     </p>
<p>Please list succinctly your two claimed egregious errors            </p>
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