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	<title>Comments on: Disproving Global Warming II</title>
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	<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/</link>
	<description>The Power of Numeracy</description>
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	<item>
		<title>By: linns</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-1218</link>
		<dc:creator>linns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 18:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-1218</guid>
		<description>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-12249</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 13:52:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-12249</guid>
		<description>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al. </p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: linns</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-1217</link>
		<dc:creator>linns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Feb 2010 12:52:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-1217</guid>
		<description>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ouch!! Figure 1 is from Briffa et al.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-12194</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 06:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-12194</guid>
		<description>I too suspect that CRF effect will not be adequate despite the correlations (and the correlations below are similar enough).  Am currently writing up an analysis whereby response to periodic fluctuating forcing is amplified, and this could be due achieved by biotic factors too.  I need to get it finished first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too suspect that CRF effect will not be adequate despite the correlations (and the correlations below are similar enough).  Am currently writing up an analysis whereby response to periodic fluctuating forcing is amplified, and this could be due achieved by biotic factors too.  I need to get it finished first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Short</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-12192</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-12192</guid>
		<description>This previous paper by Gerald Marsh shows quite clearly that over the period 1984 - 1994 the anomaly in low cloud fraction tracked the anomaly in total solar irradiance much more tightly that the anomaly in &gt;13GeV cosmic ray flux (Figure 7).

http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.4693.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This previous paper by Gerald Marsh shows quite clearly that over the period 1984 &#8211; 1994 the anomaly in low cloud fraction tracked the anomaly in total solar irradiance much more tightly that the anomaly in &gt;13GeV cosmic ray flux (Figure 7).</p>
<p><a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.4693.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.4693.pdf</a></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-1216</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 05:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-1216</guid>
		<description>I too suspect that CRF effect will not be adequate despite the correlations (and the correlations below are similar enough).  Am currently writing up an analysis whereby response to periodic fluctuating forcing is amplified, and this could be due achieved by biotic factors too.  I need to get it finished first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too suspect that CRF effect will not be adequate despite the correlations (and the correlations below are similar enough).  Am currently writing up an analysis whereby response to periodic fluctuating forcing is amplified, and this could be due achieved by biotic factors too.  I need to get it finished first.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Short</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-1215</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 04:51:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-1215</guid>
		<description>This previous paper by Gerald Marsh shows quite clearly that over the period 1984 - 1994 the anomaly in low cloud fraction tracked the anomaly in total solar irradiance much more tightly that the anomaly in &gt;13GeV cosmic ray flux (Figure 7).&lt;a href=&quot;http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.4693.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.469...&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This previous paper by Gerald Marsh shows quite clearly that over the period 1984 &#8211; 1994 the anomaly in low cloud fraction tracked the anomaly in total solar irradiance much more tightly that the anomaly in &gt;13GeV cosmic ray flux (Figure 7).<a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.4693.pdf" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.469" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0905/0905.469</a>&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Short</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-12191</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:16:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-12191</guid>
		<description>I find it very hard to accept the argument that variations in cosmic ray flux are sufficiently strong to cause such major changes in albedo. 

What we really do know about the gross relationship between Bond albedo, the solar constant and the greenhouse effect is well known and is as follows:

The net power deposited in the terrestrial atmosphere and surface depends on the solar irradiance and the Earth&#039;s short-wavelength (0.15–4.9 microns) albedo

Pin=CRe^2(1-A)

where C is the solar constant (adjusted for the Sun-Earth distance, i.e. TSI), Re is the Earth’s radius, and A is the short-wavelength Bond albedo (the amount of sunlight reflected back to space by the atmosphere and surface of the Earth). Subsequently, the short-wavelength, incoming power is re-radiated back into space at thermal or long-wavelengths (peaks near ~10–15 microns), where

Pout=4Re^2σTtoa^4

where σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and Ttoa (~255 K) is the effective temperature of the Earth (defined with unit emissivity). Ttoa is a physically averaged long-wave emission temperature at about 5.5 km height in the atmosphere (this “top of the atmosphere’’ or “toa’’ temperature depends on wavelength and cloud cover; altitudes from 0 to 30 km contribute to this emission). One can relate that temperature to a more relevant global climate parameter like the globally averaged surface temperature Tsurf by introducing a greenhouse forcing parameter G  [W/m2], which is defined as the difference between the emission at the surface and  the top of the atmosphere (OLR). The forcing G increases with an increasing concentration of greenhouse gasses. After Raval and Ramanathan (1989), one can define the normalized greenhouse effect g as g=G/σTsurf^4. Then the outgoing power can be written as

Pout=4Re^2σ(1-g)Tsurf^4

If the planet is in radiative equilibrium, Pin=Pout, then we have

Tsurf^4=C(1-A)/4σ(1-g)
					
This means that the Bond albedo, together with solar irradiance and the greenhouse effect, directly controls the Earth’s temperature. Global warming would result if either A decreased or g or C increased.

How are changes in cosmic ray flux which may or may not have a big effect on nucleation of low cloud going to overcome the enormous power of the total solar irradiance (C) (or TSI) to vary albedo - which is controlled simply via OLR = C(1-A)/4.

This is especially puzzling in a warm state interglacial world where there is a lot of photautotrophic biological activity going on, busily pumping oodles of Cloud Condensation Nuclei (CCN) into the lower troposphere?

In my view, for any fixed value of C (TSI), the relationship between Bond Albedo and surface temperature is a big lazy S type curve with only a relatively small zone of (linear) inflection at any metastable state where the albedo may be stabilized by the supply of CCN (presently biogenic and anthropogenic in my view).

For those familiar with a sort of extended Miskolczian nomenclature it looks something rather like this:

http://jump.fm/IOWFF

I think we have to be very, very careful with the use or misuse of ice core 10Be data as a supposed proxy for cosmic ray flux because it has been shown that it is very much a function of the overall dust content of the ice and should probably be normalized against sulfate content at the very least due to volcanic dust flux.

Simple variation in TSI is the most likely cause of glacial Terminations.

  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it very hard to accept the argument that variations in cosmic ray flux are sufficiently strong to cause such major changes in albedo. </p>
<p>What we really do know about the gross relationship between Bond albedo, the solar constant and the greenhouse effect is well known and is as follows:</p>
<p>The net power deposited in the terrestrial atmosphere and surface depends on the solar irradiance and the Earth&#8217;s short-wavelength (0.15–4.9 microns) albedo</p>
<p>Pin=CRe^2(1-A)</p>
<p>where C is the solar constant (adjusted for the Sun-Earth distance, i.e. TSI), Re is the Earth’s radius, and A is the short-wavelength Bond albedo (the amount of sunlight reflected back to space by the atmosphere and surface of the Earth). Subsequently, the short-wavelength, incoming power is re-radiated back into space at thermal or long-wavelengths (peaks near ~10–15 microns), where</p>
<p>Pout=4Re^2σTtoa^4</p>
<p>where σ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and Ttoa (~255 K) is the effective temperature of the Earth (defined with unit emissivity). Ttoa is a physically averaged long-wave emission temperature at about 5.5 km height in the atmosphere (this “top of the atmosphere’’ or “toa’’ temperature depends on wavelength and cloud cover; altitudes from 0 to 30 km contribute to this emission). One can relate that temperature to a more relevant global climate parameter like the globally averaged surface temperature Tsurf by introducing a greenhouse forcing parameter G  [W/m2], which is defined as the difference between the emission at the surface and  the top of the atmosphere (OLR). The forcing G increases with an increasing concentration of greenhouse gasses. After Raval and Ramanathan (1989), one can define the normalized greenhouse effect g as g=G/σTsurf^4. Then the outgoing power can be written as</p>
<p>Pout=4Re^2σ(1-g)Tsurf^4</p>
<p>If the planet is in radiative equilibrium, Pin=Pout, then we have</p>
<p>Tsurf^4=C(1-A)/4σ(1-g)</p>
<p>This means that the Bond albedo, together with solar irradiance and the greenhouse effect, directly controls the Earth’s temperature. Global warming would result if either A decreased or g or C increased.</p>
<p>How are changes in cosmic ray flux which may or may not have a big effect on nucleation of low cloud going to overcome the enormous power of the total solar irradiance (C) (or TSI) to vary albedo &#8211; which is controlled simply via OLR = C(1-A)/4.</p>
<p>This is especially puzzling in a warm state interglacial world where there is a lot of photautotrophic biological activity going on, busily pumping oodles of Cloud Condensation Nuclei (CCN) into the lower troposphere?</p>
<p>In my view, for any fixed value of C (TSI), the relationship between Bond Albedo and surface temperature is a big lazy S type curve with only a relatively small zone of (linear) inflection at any metastable state where the albedo may be stabilized by the supply of CCN (presently biogenic and anthropogenic in my view).</p>
<p>For those familiar with a sort of extended Miskolczian nomenclature it looks something rather like this:</p>
<p><a href="http://jump.fm/IOWFF" rel="nofollow">http://jump.fm/IOWFF</a></p>
<p>I think we have to be very, very careful with the use or misuse of ice core 10Be data as a supposed proxy for cosmic ray flux because it has been shown that it is very much a function of the overall dust content of the ice and should probably be normalized against sulfate content at the very least due to volcanic dust flux.</p>
<p>Simple variation in TSI is the most likely cause of glacial Terminations.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Short</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-1214</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Short</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:16:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-1214</guid>
		<description>I find it very hard to accept the argument that variations in cosmic ray flux are sufficiently strong to cause such major changes in albedo. What we really do know about the gross relationship between Bond albedo, the solar constant and the greenhouse effect is well known and is as follows:The net power deposited in the terrestrial atmosphere and surface depends on the solar irradiance and the Earth&#039;s short-wavelength (0.15â€“4.9 microns) albedoPin=CRe^2(1-A)where C is the solar constant (adjusted for the Sun-Earth distance, i.e. TSI), Re is the Earthâ€™s radius, and A is the short-wavelength Bond albedo (the amount of sunlight reflected back to space by the atmosphere and surface of the Earth). Subsequently, the short-wavelength, incoming power is re-radiated back into space at thermal or long-wavelengths (peaks near ~10â€“15 microns), wherePout=4Re^2ÏƒTtoa^4where Ïƒ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and Ttoa (~255â€‰K) is the effective temperature of the Earth (defined with unit emissivity). Ttoa is a physically averaged long-wave emission temperature at about 5.5â€‰km height in the atmosphere (this â€œtop of the atmosphereâ€™â€™ or â€œtoaâ€™â€™ temperature depends on wavelength and cloud cover; altitudes from 0 to 30â€‰km contribute to this emission). One can relate that temperature to a more relevant global climate parameter like the globally averaged surface temperature Tsurf by introducing a greenhouse forcing parameter G  [W/m2], which is defined as the difference between the emission at the surface and  the top of the atmosphere (OLR). The forcing G increases with an increasing concentration of greenhouse gasses. After Raval and Ramanathan (1989), one can define the normalized greenhouse effect g as g=G/ÏƒTsurf^4. Then the outgoing power can be written asPout=4Re^2Ïƒ(1-g)Tsurf^4If the planet is in radiative equilibrium, Pin=Pout, then we haveTsurf^4=C(1-A)/4Ïƒ(1-g)					This means that the Bond albedo, together with solar irradiance and the greenhouse effect, directly controls the Earthâ€™s temperature. Global warming would result if either A decreased or g or C increased.How are changes in cosmic ray flux which may or may not have a big effect on nucleation of low cloud going to overcome the enormous power of the total solar irradiance (C) (or TSI) to vary albedo - which is controlled simply via OLR = C(1-A)/4.This is especially puzzling in a warm state interglacial world where there is a lot of photautotrophic biological activity going on, busily pumping oodles of Cloud Condensation Nuclei (CCN) into the lower troposphere?In my view, for any fixed value of C (TSI), the relationship between Bond Albedo and surface temperature is a big lazy S type curve with only a relatively small zone of (linear) inflection at any metastable state where the albedo may be stabilized by the supply of CCN (presently biogenic and anthropogenic in my view).For those familiar with a sort of extended Miskolczian nomenclature it looks something rather like this:&lt;a href=&quot;http://jump.fm/IOWFF&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://jump.fm/IOWFF&lt;/a&gt;I think we have to be very, very careful with the use or misuse of ice core 10Be data as a supposed proxy for cosmic ray flux because it has been shown that it is very much a function of the overall dust content of the ice and should probably be normalized against sulfate content at the very least due to volcanic dust flux.Simple variation in TSI is the most likely cause of glacial Terminations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find it very hard to accept the argument that variations in cosmic ray flux are sufficiently strong to cause such major changes in albedo. What we really do know about the gross relationship between Bond albedo, the solar constant and the greenhouse effect is well known and is as follows:The net power deposited in the terrestrial atmosphere and surface depends on the solar irradiance and the Earth&#039;s short-wavelength (0.15â€“4.9 microns) albedoPin=CRe^2(1-A)where C is the solar constant (adjusted for the Sun-Earth distance, i.e. TSI), Re is the Earthâ€™s radius, and A is the short-wavelength Bond albedo (the amount of sunlight reflected back to space by the atmosphere and surface of the Earth). Subsequently, the short-wavelength, incoming power is re-radiated back into space at thermal or long-wavelengths (peaks near ~10â€“15 microns), wherePout=4Re^2ÏƒTtoa^4where Ïƒ is the Stefan-Boltzmann constant and Ttoa (~255â€‰K) is the effective temperature of the Earth (defined with unit emissivity). Ttoa is a physically averaged long-wave emission temperature at about 5.5â€‰km height in the atmosphere (this â€œtop of the atmosphereâ€™â€™ or â€œtoaâ€™â€™ temperature depends on wavelength and cloud cover; altitudes from 0 to 30â€‰km contribute to this emission). One can relate that temperature to a more relevant global climate parameter like the globally averaged surface temperature Tsurf by introducing a greenhouse forcing parameter G  [W/m2], which is defined as the difference between the emission at the surface and  the top of the atmosphere (OLR). The forcing G increases with an increasing concentration of greenhouse gasses. After Raval and Ramanathan (1989), one can define the normalized greenhouse effect g as g=G/ÏƒTsurf^4. Then the outgoing power can be written asPout=4Re^2Ïƒ(1-g)Tsurf^4If the planet is in radiative equilibrium, Pin=Pout, then we haveTsurf^4=C(1-A)/4Ïƒ(1-g)					This means that the Bond albedo, together with solar irradiance and the greenhouse effect, directly controls the Earthâ€™s temperature. Global warming would result if either A decreased or g or C increased.How are changes in cosmic ray flux which may or may not have a big effect on nucleation of low cloud going to overcome the enormous power of the total solar irradiance (C) (or TSI) to vary albedo &#8211; which is controlled simply via OLR = C(1-A)/4.This is especially puzzling in a warm state interglacial world where there is a lot of photautotrophic biological activity going on, busily pumping oodles of Cloud Condensation Nuclei (CCN) into the lower troposphere?In my view, for any fixed value of C (TSI), the relationship between Bond Albedo and surface temperature is a big lazy S type curve with only a relatively small zone of (linear) inflection at any metastable state where the albedo may be stabilized by the supply of CCN (presently biogenic and anthropogenic in my view).For those familiar with a sort of extended Miskolczian nomenclature it looks something rather like this:<a href="http://jump.fm/IOWFF" rel="nofollow">http://jump.fm/IOWFF</a>I think we have to be very, very careful with the use or misuse of ice core 10Be data as a supposed proxy for cosmic ray flux because it has been shown that it is very much a function of the overall dust content of the ice and should probably be normalized against sulfate content at the very least due to volcanic dust flux.Simple variation in TSI is the most likely cause of glacial Terminations.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/disproving-global-warming-ii/#comment-12185</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Feb 2010 13:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=3580#comment-12185</guid>
		<description>Other factors can account for GIGs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Other factors can account for GIGs.</p>
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