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	<title>Comments on: Downloading Monthly Mean Australian Temperatures from the BoM</title>
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	<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/</link>
	<description>The power of numeracy</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 15 Mar 2010 01:42:49 -0500</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Tonis-Zoo Katzen Hunde Futter Pferde Reptilien Fische M&#228;use Meerschweinchen</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179880</link>
		<dc:creator>Tonis-Zoo Katzen Hunde Futter Pferde Reptilien Fische M&#228;use Meerschweinchen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Feb 2010 19:20:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179880</guid>
		<description>[...] Niche Modeling » Downloading Monthly Mean Australian Temperatures &#8230; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Niche Modeling » Downloading Monthly Mean Australian Temperatures &#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179469</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Oct 2009 04:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179469</guid>
		<description>The usual approach is to define level 0, level 1, etc data according to the degree of manipulation.  Creating contiguous data ups the levels.  &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What KMNI has done is really great.  Need more of it.  Cheers</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The usual approach is to define level 0, level 1, etc data according to the degree of manipulation.  Creating contiguous data ups the levels.  </p>
<p>What KMNI has done is really great.  Need more of it.  Cheers</p>
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		<title>By: sherro</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179463</link>
		<dc:creator>sherro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Oct 2009 11:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179463</guid>
		<description>Well I need some stinkin&#039; bar graphs but I need to design them.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;There is a problem with monthly data sets being prepared at BOM and that problem is missing data. It&#039;s almost as if those with something to contribute to method need to get together to resolve an agreed in fill method that is transparent and portable. In filling does not change the sense of the data much, mostly, but it makes working with the data far more tedious. It also encourages multiple users to devise their own infills, some of which are not reproducible by others. So there are increasingly more versions getting around in the literature and not all of them can be correct.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Yes, I&#039;d very much like tabulation of monthly Tmax and T min at as many stations as practical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I need some stinkin&#39; bar graphs but I need to design them.</p>
<p>There is a problem with monthly data sets being prepared at BOM and that problem is missing data. It&#39;s almost as if those with something to contribute to method need to get together to resolve an agreed in fill method that is transparent and portable. In filling does not change the sense of the data much, mostly, but it makes working with the data far more tedious. It also encourages multiple users to devise their own infills, some of which are not reproducible by others. So there are increasingly more versions getting around in the literature and not all of them can be correct.</p>
<p>Yes, I&#39;d very much like tabulation of monthly Tmax and T min at as many stations as practical.</p>
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		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179456</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Sep 2009 08:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179456</guid>
		<description>Yeah, we don&#039;t need no stinkin&#039; bar graphs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, we don&#39;t need no stinkin&#39; bar graphs.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179453</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve McIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Sep 2009 04:08:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179453</guid>
		<description>DAvid, if you want to extract Aus monthly mean data, here&#039;s a script that scrapes it. AusInfo is an information sheet (now at CA) listing the 103 stations in the monthly webpages with id numbers. get.bom scrapes the data into a time series using the id (character). I HATE these JAva pages that these guys waste money on.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;source(&quot;http://www.climateaudit.org/scripts/station/australia/functions.bom.txt&quot;)&lt;br&gt;	station= get.bom(id=AusInfo$id[i])</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DAvid, if you want to extract Aus monthly mean data, here&#39;s a script that scrapes it. AusInfo is an information sheet (now at CA) listing the 103 stations in the monthly webpages with id numbers. get.bom scrapes the data into a time series using the id (character). I HATE these JAva pages that these guys waste money on.</p>
<p>source(&#8221;http://www.climateaudit.org/scripts/station/australia/functions.bom.txt&#8221;)<br />	station= get.bom(id=AusInfo$id[i])</p>
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		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179452</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 22:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179452</guid>
		<description>Very kind offer Steve.  It seems to be taking them a while to work out!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very kind offer Steve.  It seems to be taking them a while to work out!</p>
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		<title>By: Steve McIntyre</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179451</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve McIntyre</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Sep 2009 15:30:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179451</guid>
		<description>David, even though BOM says that &quot;the monthly data are not available as a single file because the graphs are generated automatically from the data files and an all-months data file would contain too many data values to fit easily on one graph. We will see what we can do.&quot;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I can scrape monthly station data from the BoM website. :) &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;Here are the first few months from Charters, Qld which I read directly into R:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;1   19620101 19620131    28.5&lt;br&gt;2   19620201 19620228    27.6&lt;br&gt;3   19620301 19620331    26.1&lt;br&gt;4   19620401 19620430    22.8&lt;br&gt;5   19620501 19620531    21.4&lt;br&gt;6   19620601 19620630    19.4&lt;br&gt;... &lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;If BoM wishes some assistance, I&#039;d be happy to help them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, even though BOM says that &#8220;the monthly data are not available as a single file because the graphs are generated automatically from the data files and an all-months data file would contain too many data values to fit easily on one graph. We will see what we can do.&#8221;</p>
<p>I can scrape monthly station data from the BoM website. <img src='http://landshape.org/enm/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  </p>
<p>Here are the first few months from Charters, Qld which I read directly into R:</p>
<p>1   19620101 19620131    28.5<br />2   19620201 19620228    27.6<br />3   19620301 19620331    26.1<br />4   19620401 19620430    22.8<br />5   19620501 19620531    21.4<br />6   19620601 19620630    19.4<br />&#8230; </p>
<p>If BoM wishes some assistance, I&#39;d be happy to help them.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179445</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 19:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179445</guid>
		<description>First, let me say that I agree with the principle you advocate here, also known as Hanlon&#039;s razor. Anybody however could drift from such moorings occasionally. But none of this seems an adequate explanation to me. The US government has Nationwide, Regional, Statewide, and a few Local data sets readily available for mean temperature and precipitation by month, season, and annual (as well as YTD) on a single web page, all going back (except for some local records) to 1895, here:&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/ca...&lt;/a&gt;&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;And it strikes me as odd that, although one may wish for a little more transparency on NOAA&#039;s part, that BoM can&#039;t be bothered to even do that much work. Suffice it to say that my opinion of the Australian agency is now greatly diminished relative to NOAA here in the states, which I don&#039;t hold in particularly high regard anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, let me say that I agree with the principle you advocate here, also known as Hanlon&#39;s razor. Anybody however could drift from such moorings occasionally. But none of this seems an adequate explanation to me. The US government has Nationwide, Regional, Statewide, and a few Local data sets readily available for mean temperature and precipitation by month, season, and annual (as well as YTD) on a single web page, all going back (except for some local records) to 1895, here:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/cag3/cag3.html" rel="nofollow"></a><a href="http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/ca.." rel="nofollow">http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/research/ca..</a>.</p>
<p>And it strikes me as odd that, although one may wish for a little more transparency on NOAA&#39;s part, that BoM can&#39;t be bothered to even do that much work. Suffice it to say that my opinion of the Australian agency is now greatly diminished relative to NOAA here in the states, which I don&#39;t hold in particularly high regard anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: davids99us</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179442</link>
		<dc:creator>davids99us</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:49:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179442</guid>
		<description>sherro - all good points.  Good meta-data and data control is more important than the data themselves.  I have worked on this for many years in the museum and zoo communities.  Greater appreciation of the needs of rigorous data analysis is one of the causes I want to champion, as I see often where the distribution is aligned around flashy interfaces, rather than substance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>sherro &#8211; all good points.  Good meta-data and data control is more important than the data themselves.  I have worked on this for many years in the museum and zoo communities.  Greater appreciation of the needs of rigorous data analysis is one of the causes I want to champion, as I see often where the distribution is aligned around flashy interfaces, rather than substance.</p>
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		<title>By: sherro</title>
		<link>http://landshape.org/enm/downloading-monthly-mean-australian-temperatures-from-the-bom/comment-page-1/#comment-179441</link>
		<dc:creator>sherro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Sep 2009 00:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://landshape.org/enm/?p=2946#comment-179441</guid>
		<description>Ben, the daily data for temp as Tmax and Tmin, with year/month/day is already electronic and digital. The hard yards have already been walked by BOM. At most stations it goes back to the year of commencement of records, such as the mid 1850s for Melb and Sydney.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;David is talking about the presentation of these figures in a way that makes it easy to inform. Sure, if you are a programmer, they are reasonably easy to manipulate. But it is more efficient for the central controller to manipulate them into a presentation form, than for myriads of public users out there to do their own thing.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;As well as data reported on a daily basis, it would be handy to have an official version using in fill of minor missing values by an explained algorithm, followed by tabulation of monthly and yearly averages for each acceptable station. Probably, these are the forms most used in studies.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;What is lacking, but is being worked on, is the transcription of meta data such as station changes and other recorded factors that might influence the record.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;On the BOM website, the data records tend to commence later. A decision seems to have been made that uncertainties about the start of use of Stevenson screens requires deletion of much data before 1910 or so. Later, there has been a minor trend to report data after about 1950, for reasons that elude me. One day we might see data only after 2000, or whatever was the actual year when the last of the Mercury thermometers was replaced by thermocouple or thermistor devices. It is becoming clearer that Tmax and Tmin from a Hg thermometer is less useful than the Tmax and Tmin from a near-continuous recorder, which can be estimated optionally after smoothing and filtering.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;At present, there is no single &quot;official&quot; version of the Australian temperature record, because it is being changed from time to time. This has a bad knock-on effect when other users such as GISS and HadCRU take the same data and do their own adjustments to it. I simply do not know which record to use for studies, because there can be differences in the average of a given year of several degrees C from one source to another.&lt;br&gt;&lt;br&gt;I suspect that this effect alone has already invalidated some studies that attempted to calibrate proxy data in the instrumented era.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ben, the daily data for temp as Tmax and Tmin, with year/month/day is already electronic and digital. The hard yards have already been walked by BOM. At most stations it goes back to the year of commencement of records, such as the mid 1850s for Melb and Sydney.</p>
<p>David is talking about the presentation of these figures in a way that makes it easy to inform. Sure, if you are a programmer, they are reasonably easy to manipulate. But it is more efficient for the central controller to manipulate them into a presentation form, than for myriads of public users out there to do their own thing.</p>
<p>As well as data reported on a daily basis, it would be handy to have an official version using in fill of minor missing values by an explained algorithm, followed by tabulation of monthly and yearly averages for each acceptable station. Probably, these are the forms most used in studies.</p>
<p>What is lacking, but is being worked on, is the transcription of meta data such as station changes and other recorded factors that might influence the record.</p>
<p>On the BOM website, the data records tend to commence later. A decision seems to have been made that uncertainties about the start of use of Stevenson screens requires deletion of much data before 1910 or so. Later, there has been a minor trend to report data after about 1950, for reasons that elude me. One day we might see data only after 2000, or whatever was the actual year when the last of the Mercury thermometers was replaced by thermocouple or thermistor devices. It is becoming clearer that Tmax and Tmin from a Hg thermometer is less useful than the Tmax and Tmin from a near-continuous recorder, which can be estimated optionally after smoothing and filtering.</p>
<p>At present, there is no single &#8220;official&#8221; version of the Australian temperature record, because it is being changed from time to time. This has a bad knock-on effect when other users such as GISS and HadCRU take the same data and do their own adjustments to it. I simply do not know which record to use for studies, because there can be differences in the average of a given year of several degrees C from one source to another.</p>
<p>I suspect that this effect alone has already invalidated some studies that attempted to calibrate proxy data in the instrumented era.</p>
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