Comments on: Greenhouse Thermodynamics and Water Vapor http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/ The Power of Numeracy Wed, 16 May 2012 18:37:00 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Jesus http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-13625 Jesus Thu, 01 Mar 2012 10:43:00 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-13625 Im a chicken Im a chicken

]]> By: What are the ways to prevent Global Warming? | Global Warming Information http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4244 What are the ways to prevent Global Warming? | Global Warming Information Mon, 12 Oct 2009 01:56:33 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4244 [...] of warming http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/The_Saturated_Greenhouse_Effect.htm http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/ How the mistakes were made because the perpratrators were not well enough educated to understand [...] [...] of warming http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/The_Saturated_Greenhouse_Effect.htm http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/ How the mistakes were made because the perpratrators were not well enough educated to understand [...]

]]> By: CocoChanels http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4243 CocoChanels Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:19:34 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4243 Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium? Help, please. All recommend this program to effectively advertise on the Internet, this is the best program! Who knows where to download XRumer 5.0 Palladium?
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]]> By: EPA’s Alan Carlin channels Pat Michaels and the Friends of Science « Deep Climate http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4242 EPA’s Alan Carlin channels Pat Michaels and the Friends of Science « Deep Climate Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:20:05 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4242 [...] with the various explanations of the deficiciencies of climate models, that even Gregory’s ramblings at the obscure Niche Modeling blog get quoted at length. Here is Gregory expanding on the idea that ” IPCC models all assume [...] [...] with the various explanations of the deficiciencies of climate models, that even Gregory’s ramblings at the obscure Niche Modeling blog get quoted at length. Here is Gregory expanding on the idea that ” IPCC models all assume [...]

]]> By: Franko http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4241 Franko Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:31:40 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4241 Different special effects create the complexity. Stores heat at the surface, increases air bouyancy, insulation by inversion, rise to form clouds, block in and out, give up heat, dissolve CO2, and rain to the surface. Lower humidity, less rain, less CO2 transported from high to surface. Both greenhouse gasses decrease at the top. How does this effect altitude versus temperature ? Different special effects create the complexity. Stores heat at the surface, increases air bouyancy, insulation by inversion, rise to form clouds, block in and out, give up heat, dissolve CO2, and rain to the surface.

Lower humidity, less rain, less CO2 transported from high to surface. Both greenhouse gasses decrease at the top. How does this effect altitude versus temperature ?

]]> By: Franko http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7261 Franko Wed, 06 Aug 2008 07:31:00 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7261 Different special effects create the complexity. Stores heat at the surface, increases air bouyancy, insulation by inversion, rise to form clouds, block in and out, give up heat, dissolve CO2, and rain to the surface. Lower humidity, less rain, less CO2 transported from high to surface. Both greenhouse gasses decrease at the top. How does this effect altitude versus temperature ? Different special effects create the complexity. Stores heat at the surface, increases air bouyancy, insulation by inversion, rise to form clouds, block in and out, give up heat, dissolve CO2, and rain to the surface.

Lower humidity, less rain, less CO2 transported from high to surface. Both greenhouse gasses decrease at the top. How does this effect altitude versus temperature ?

]]> By: Ken Gregory http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4240 Ken Gregory Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:24:34 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4240 I remind you that a change in the amount of water vapor at high altitude is much more important to the greenhouse effect than the same change at low altitude. Box 8.1 of 4AR Chapter 8 page 632 states: "The radiative effect of absorption by water vapour is roughly proportional to the logarithm of its concentration, so it is the fractional change in water vapour concentration, not the absolute change, that governs its strength as a feedback mechanism. Calculations with GCMs suggest that water vapour remains at an approximately constant fraction of its saturated value (close to unchanged relative humidity (RH)) under global-scale warming (see Section 8.6.3.1). Under such a response, for uniform warming, the largest fractional change in water vapour, and thus the largest contribution to the feedback, occurs in the upper troposphere." I remind you that a change in the amount of water vapor at high altitude is much more important to the greenhouse effect than the same change at low altitude.

Box 8.1 of 4AR Chapter 8 page 632 states:

“The radiative effect of absorption by water vapour is roughly proportional to the logarithm of its concentration, so it is the fractional change in water vapour concentration, not the absolute change, that governs its strength as a feedback mechanism. Calculations with GCMs suggest that water vapour remains at an approximately constant fraction of its saturated value (close to unchanged relative humidity (RH)) under global-scale warming (see Section 8.6.3.1). Under such a response, for uniform warming, the largest fractional change in water vapour, and thus the largest contribution to the feedback, occurs in the upper troposphere.”

]]> By: Ken Gregory http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7260 Ken Gregory Sat, 28 Jun 2008 16:24:00 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7260 I remind you that a change in the amount of water vapor at high altitude is much more important to the greenhouse effect than the same change at low altitude. Box 8.1 of 4AR Chapter 8 page 632 states: "The radiative effect of absorption by water vapour is roughly proportional to the logarithm of its concentration, so it is the fractional change in water vapour concentration, not the absolute change, that governs its strength as a feedback mechanism. Calculations with GCMs suggest that water vapour remains at an approximately constant fraction of its saturated value (close to unchanged relative humidity (RH)) under global-scale warming (see Section 8.6.3.1). Under such a response, for uniform warming, the largest fractional change in water vapour, and thus the largest contribution to the feedback, occurs in the upper troposphere." I remind you that a change in the amount of water vapor at high altitude is much more important to the greenhouse effect than the same change at low altitude.

Box 8.1 of 4AR Chapter 8 page 632 states:

“The radiative effect of absorption by water vapour is roughly proportional to the logarithm of its concentration, so it is the fractional change in water vapour concentration, not the absolute change, that governs its strength as a feedback mechanism. Calculations with GCMs suggest that water vapour remains at an approximately constant fraction of its saturated value (close to unchanged relative humidity (RH)) under global-scale warming (see Section 8.6.3.1). Under such a response, for uniform warming, the largest fractional change in water vapour, and thus the largest contribution to the feedback, occurs in the upper troposphere.”

]]> By: Kyle Littler http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4239 Kyle Littler Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:10:38 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-4239 From #18: "In looking at Anthony’s plots, you need to take note of the vertical axis scales. The range at 1000 mb is .45 gm/kg; at 300 mb it is .045 gm/kg, ten times less. The decrease at high altitudes is much less than the increase at low altitudes." That's how it looks at the extremes, but for the range from 700-400 mb the decrease is a bit bigger, and this pressure range corresponds to a much greater altitude range than the region where specific humidity is decreasing. However, since atmospheric density is lower at higher altitudes ( http://www.auf.asn.au/metimages/atmosdensity.gif ), a change in specific humidity at higher altitude corresponds to a smaller change in actual water vapor concentration. With all this in mind, you can't really tell whether the graphs suggest a net increase or decrease in the total amount of water vapor in the atmosphere just by eyeballing it; somebody would have to take the source data and do some actual number-crunching on it. From #18:

“In looking at Anthony’s plots, you need to take note of the vertical axis scales. The range at 1000 mb is .45 gm/kg; at 300 mb it is .045 gm/kg, ten times less. The decrease at high altitudes is much less than the increase at low altitudes.”

That’s how it looks at the extremes, but for the range from 700-400 mb the decrease is a bit bigger, and this pressure range corresponds to a much greater altitude range than the region where specific humidity is decreasing. However, since atmospheric density is lower at higher altitudes ( http://www.auf.asn.au/metimages/atmosdensity.gif ), a change in specific humidity at higher altitude corresponds to a smaller change in actual water vapor concentration. With all this in mind, you can’t really tell whether the graphs suggest a net increase or decrease in the total amount of water vapor in the atmosphere just by eyeballing it; somebody would have to take the source data and do some actual number-crunching on it.

]]> By: Kyle Littler http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7259 Kyle Littler Sat, 28 Jun 2008 01:10:00 +0000 http://landshape.org/enm/greenhouse-thermodynamics-and-water-vapor/#comment-7259 From #18: "In looking at Anthony’s plots, you need to take note of the vertical axis scales. The range at 1000 mb is .45 gm/kg; at 300 mb it is .045 gm/kg, ten times less. The decrease at high altitudes is much less than the increase at low altitudes." That's how it looks at the extremes, but for the range from 700-400 mb the decrease is a bit bigger, and this pressure range corresponds to a much greater altitude range than the region where specific humidity is decreasing. However, since atmospheric density is lower at higher altitudes ( http://www.auf.asn.au/metimages/atmosdensity.gif ), a change in specific humidity at higher altitude corresponds to a smaller change in actual water vapor concentration. With all this in mind, you can't really tell whether the graphs suggest a net increase or decrease in the total amount of water vapor in the atmosphere just by eyeballing it; somebody would have to take the source data and do some actual number-crunching on it. From #18:

“In looking at Anthony’s plots, you need to take note of the vertical axis scales. The range at 1000 mb is .45 gm/kg; at 300 mb it is .045 gm/kg, ten times less. The decrease at high altitudes is much less than the increase at low altitudes.”

That’s how it looks at the extremes, but for the range from 700-400 mb the decrease is a bit bigger, and this pressure range corresponds to a much greater altitude range than the region where specific humidity is decreasing. However, since atmospheric density is lower at higher altitudes ( http://www.auf.asn.au/metimages/atmosdensity.gif ), a change in specific humidity at higher altitude corresponds to a smaller change in actual water vapor concentration. With all this in mind, you can’t really tell whether the graphs suggest a net increase or decrease in the total amount of water vapor in the atmosphere just by eyeballing it; somebody would have to take the source data and do some actual number-crunching on it.

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